Toni Petrillo: 0:00

We're in the business of building trust with our clients. It's not just about the investments and before they hand over their portfolio to you. They have to know that they can trust you. and if you only talk about money, it will solve money problems. It won't solve the emotional and psychological concerns that they may have. Retirement planning today really has two parts to the equation. There's the financial plan and the lifestyle plan, and you need to prepare for both so this is something that I used to coach my financial planners all the time when I was reviewing their plans, I would ask them, okay, so here's your financial plan. You've created a good map in terms of how much they're going to need, annually and live on, and how long the money will last. And then I said, tell me a little bit more about the client. What are their dreams in retirement? What do they wanna do? how do they wanna spend their time? and. They could tell me a little bit about the client, but not a lot. They know all the financials. They know exactly what their risk profile is and what kind of investments they like, and we have to, that's our due diligence. We have to get that. But I said just tell me a little bit more about the client and talk to me about them. And I wait. And the pause is quite long because they don't have a lot to say. So I said, we need to dig a little bit deeper. And at the end of the day, how can you actually build a financial plan for a client if you don't know what their lifestyle plan

Yasmin Nguyen: 1:17

Welcome back to the real retirement show. My name is Yasmin here with my cohost Kathleen, whether you're retired or thinking about retirement, we delve into the multifaceted world of retirement beyond the finances. This isn't your typical retirement discussion. It's a vibrant journey into what retirement truly means in today's world. We bring you real stories from real retirees and experts discussing real challenges, surprises, joys, heartaches, and the myriad of emotions that come with retirement. From addressing family dynamics to mental and physical health to finding purpose, we tackle the issues that truly matter to retirees and those thinking about retirement. We are thrilled to welcome Toni Petrillo, a seasoned financial industry leader with over 25 years of experience in building and leading teams. After retiring from her executive role, Toni recognized a critical gap in resources for corporate professionals navigating the transition from a thriving career to a fulfilling retirement. With a deep passion for leadership and confidence building, Toni now dedicates her expertise to empowering individuals through this major life shift. She provides valuable guidance, insights, and strategies to help professionals embrace retirement. With assurance and purpose, join us as we dive into Toni's journey and the challenges professionals face when stepping away from a corporate world and her mission to make retirement, not just an end, but an exciting new beginning. Welcome Toni. So glad to have you here today.

Toni Petrillo: 3:00

Thank you so much. Thank you. It's, it's a pleasure to be here.

Kathleen Mundy: 3:03

I was really excited to know that we were doing this today because Canadians are sticking together and I love that you're a Canadian.

Toni Petrillo: 3:11

yes, exactly. at the end of the day, we have great relationships and we have to maintain that. So, all just white noise that we need to just forget and keep it out there and remember and focus on what's important.

Kathleen Mundy: 3:22

What's important? Absolutely. And that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

Yasmin Nguyen: 3:26

well, Toni, I'm curious, would you share with us a little bit about your journey and what inspired you to focus on this retirement transition and experience?

Toni Petrillo: 3:36

sure. That's a great place to start actually. So, let's talk a little bit about my story. as you mentioned earlier, I spent, I. 30 years in the financial world, building and managing, financial planning teams actually. So I spent a lot of time on the financial part of retirement planning and, I was, as much as I loved the role and I loved it, did it for 30 years, I was excited about retirement and I had a dream. So while I was working and building my career, I always had a dream about. What I would like to do in retirement, and that would be to open up a coaching practice. wasn't sure exactly what the niche would be, but I knew I wanted to open up a coaching practice. So, as I approached retirement, I was really excited about it and I. I didn't expect though, was the emotional rollercoaster that came with it. and as much as you have a plan and you spend a lot of time planning on the financial side, like a lot most people do, right? They make sure that their investments are in order and they have enough funding for retirement. what I didn't prepare for was what my life would look like after work. And even though I had a plan or somewhat of a plan in terms of. What my vision would be. it really made me think and it said, if I'm struggling this way, imagine that others are not struggling the same way. And, it made me think that this is what my niche is gonna be. and as much as I wanna open up a coaching practice, I wanted it to be retirement coaching. And the message is really to raise awareness just like all my other colleagues and my peers. for anyone that is struggling out there and is not really understanding why they're not happy in retirement, that there is help for you out there. and that's my job really to help them navigate this transition into retirement with confidence and get and excitement for this next chapter.

Kathleen Mundy: 5:24

you summed that up beautifully and I'm wondering what were some of the biggest challenges when you started this journey?

Toni Petrillo: 5:31

for me the biggest challenge was, really getting the word out there and making sure that, Everybody really understood that there was a retirement coach. what are retirement coaches? from a personal side, one of my challenges was really a lack of structure thrive in a very structured environment and, not having this sense of structure, leading teams or a sense of purpose. it was something that was a big part of my, my new life, right? So, I quickly had to redefine what purpose and productivity meant for me in retirement. so when I was building my practice, I really based it on those pillars in terms of, helping people to understand how to maintain their identity, how to build their social connections and, their wellbeing. So those four pillars were really the basis of my. Coaching practice. Retired with Intention.

Yasmin Nguyen: 6:25

would you share with us some of the challenges that you actually face that, that may have inspired, a sense of relatability with those clients that you're working with?

Toni Petrillo: 6:34

so some of the challenges that I faced, again, it goes back to when I closed that office door. and it's not literally, it was figuratively because it was during the pandemic. So it's really more when I closed my Zoom call. but. When I did close that, it was a very surreal moment for me school. So after 30 years having this sense of purpose and this identity, which I realized at that point that as excited as I was about retirement, I realized how closely my identity was tied into my career, and I had to quickly look around and say, okay, well, This is something that is, is if I'm struggling with, like I said before, I think a lot of other people are struggling with as well. So it really made me reflect and I went into, a self-discovery mode. I went to find out who am I beyond my work and my career? Who is Toni or who was Toni before she started building her career and who is she afterwards? And, That question is really something that is built in, and hardwired into my coaching with my clients as well. So it's really finding that that feeling of disconnection, social connections and feeling lonely. Those were the biggest challenges for me. I would say

Yasmin Nguyen: 7:50

Thank you for sharing that, Toni. we're not alone in this journey and what you shared is really powerful experiences that, we get a chance to navigate. and are there particular types of clients that really are, ideal fit for you? in terms of their backgrounds, where they're coming from and what they're experiencing?

Toni Petrillo: 8:08

Sure. so I mainly focus on career professionals, professionals, people that have really dedicated, of their lives towards a very long and successful career. And as, as excited as they are about retirement, they too, end up. Feeling a little bit lost. So there's what we call the honeymoon phase, right? And the minute they complete that phase and they start realizing that, there's a sense of disconnection. There's a loss of identity. not really understanding why they're not happy and thriving in retirement, when in fact they should be. so these are really The target audience or the clients that I help. having been there and having gone through that and crossed over into retirement, and gone through all of those, that emotional rollercoaster, feel like those are the ones that I can help the most and reach out to the most. And that's where my job right now is to really help them transition into this, next phase of their life and next chapter of their life with a lot of confidence and happiness really.'cause otherwise they're not

Kathleen Mundy: 9:11

You know what you're outlining to me is wonderful because you've actually lived it and you have a personal experience and I'm just wondering what makes your approach this retirement journey? I. Different from others in your field?

Toni Petrillo: 9:26

so others in my field. I'm gonna ask you, Kathleen, do you mean other, retirement coaches

Kathleen Mundy: 9:32

Yes.

Toni Petrillo: 9:33

planners and financial advisors?'cause they also do retirement planning, so

Kathleen Mundy: 9:38

what you've outlined for us is dealing with kind of the soft side of it, not the financial end of it. And I'm just wondering other people who are working in that field that are helping with that retirement journey, what makes your methodology and, different and sets you apart?

Toni Petrillo: 9:54

so it goes back to my 30 years in the financial world. So I'd have to say that having my financial background is very much into the mix and, where traditional retirement planning does involve a little bit of. not a little bit, but involves the money side. but what I like to say is, I have both the 30 years of coaching a sales team, so that's definitely a strength that I bring into the mix and a little bit of my financial background and only because. I understand what the retirement conversation is, and what clients are living on one side, and I wanna really compliment the other side of that. So having seen the financial side, I know there's definitely a gap in the conversation, with clients and financial advisors and I wanna be able to, compliment that when they are retiring. it's a mix of both, Kathleen. it's really throwing into the mix. The, my financial background, my coaching background. I always tell clients, there's two forms of spending in retirement. There's spending of time and spending of money, and you really do have to prepare both. And understanding both sides of the equation is something that I think, is what I bring to the table. That's, that's a strength for me.

Kathleen Mundy: 11:07

that certainly is a unique approach compared to many others, so thank you for sharing that and really explaining it in detail to us.

Yasmin Nguyen: 11:14

Toni, with your extensive experience in the financial services world, and I'm curious are you finding that more advisors are, open to having these conversations beyond the financial piece with their clients, or is that something that they're looking for outside expertise to support them? Hmm.

Toni Petrillo: 11:33

are financial advisors that are starting to see the importance and the relevance of incorporating, a holistic conversation and that it does entail both the financial and the lifestyle plan. they're not ready to do it themselves. and I don't blame them having run my financial planning team, I experienced it firsthand as important as they understood what it was. They weren't ready to or even equipped to have that conversation with their clients. a lot of them. Really started reaching out Hey Toni, what do you do as a retirement coach and how can we work together? And it's, I have a call this afternoon and right after this with a financial advisor, from one of the major banks here, and he wants to know a little bit more about my business and how I can help him and how we could work together. I'm working with a lot Connections that I've had, my previous financial planners where a lot of them are starting to open up and seeing the benefits and I've created, guides and strategies for them as well so that they could incorporate it within their practice without that extra workload. So it's basically just giving them triggers on. What to look for when you're having the financial planning conversation so that you could see that your client is also struggling on the non-financial side. And if you make it easy for them, give them the triggers that they need to look for. Perhaps some conversation starters so that they could, understand but not be the subject matter expert And know when to say and bring a, retirement coach into the conversation and say, look, I work very closely with so and so who's a retirement coach, and they can help you with some of these questions, and some of these issues if you're looking for help.

Yasmin Nguyen: 13:09

Yeah. Toni, have you noticed that there's, any friction with regards to adopting, this more holistic approach and where does you know some of that friction? come from,

Toni Petrillo: 13:20

even the ones that do see the value, don't know if they have the time. they don't know the, and I'll be quite honest with this, is what's the, what's in it for me,

Yasmin Nguyen: 13:28

Yeah.

Toni Petrillo: 13:29

They're all financial advisors are all pretty much, I. Evaluated on their sales. I ran that team. So as much as they understood and liked the importance of it, they weren't prepared to really incorporate it into their practice and not understanding the, what's in it for me? What are the benefits for my client, what are the benefits for my practice? are the three main pillars that I. Focus on when I do talk to financial advisors I really make them understand, in terms of what are the benefits for you and your practice, So one thing that they're looking for is client referrals and how hard is it to get client referrals? it really does help with. Clients becoming big ambassadors of you and your practice. It helps with client retention long term. It helps with, your asset retention and building trust, which is the number one and the most important thing in terms of the client and financial advisory relationship. So I really do emphasize those three ends. we go into a little bit more detail in terms of how they could incorporate that, but I make it very easy for them to spot when a client is struggling on the non-financial side then quickly understand what are the conversation starters that you can to incorporate me into the conversation or a retirement coach, not just myself, but do your client a favor. But those are the aspects that I focus on, and those are the, answer your question as Yasmin is the. the tension I feel is that they don't know how to incorporate it. They don't wanna put in the work, they don't wanna feel like a one hour conversation is gonna turn into a two hour conversation, so make it easy for them.

Yasmin Nguyen: 15:03

Yep.

Kathleen Mundy: 15:06

Wow. That is absolutely what we have found as well. what you're doing is confirming to us, we've done so much research and it's important that the clients are benefiting. The advisors, the money managers are benefiting. I think it's really important to be able to tie those two success stories together. And what methods have you used, what tools do you use in, reinforcing this concept to your, financial planners?

Toni Petrillo: 15:33

so I've built out a few, like I said, a few guides for them to make it easy. and the first and foremost, I have a very honest conversation with them just like I did I was their boss and they were my financial planners. And I said, how can I make it easy for you or. What is it that's stopping you from having this conversation? And a lot of times we get right to the heart of what the problem is. I'm not ready to have a two hour conversation on the non-financial side. I'm not equipped to have that conversation. I'm not even interested in having that conversation. So we really pinpoint what some of the obstacles are. then I've just created, based on their feedback, and I've done a lot of focus groups and just meetings, lunch and learns with. My financial planners and other advisors and really to uncover a lot of these little, Questions and concerns that they have. And then I built guides and just conversation starters. what is the importance of financial retirement, lifestyle planning, what is it? I really, I give them all these guides and conversation starters and, email templates so that if they did have to email a client to do a follow up, just make it very easy for them, very turnkey equip them with just that kind of conversation. Toni, you're really making an impact in the industry and especially the type of, approach that you're doing to simplify this so that it makes it easier for, those out on the front lines to be able to at least, have that conversation and then get them the support Through you or others that may be able to dive deeper. when you're working with a new client, what are some of the things that you've, discovered is the first starting point to be able to have a deeper exploration with them? they need to have an open mindset. And there's three things that I focus on in my coaching and that is, mindset is important. So you have to have that openness and, be curious.'cause there are a lot of opportunities and possibilities out there, and flexibility. you really wanna be flexible and open to change, because you could explore all the opportunities out there and if you're not open to change, then you won't have a successful retirement. so those are the three that I really work on and I focus, I start coaching sessions with.

Kathleen Mundy: 17:52

Because of that, I wonder if you can share a story with us that you found one of your clients had a major breakthrough using your techniques.

Toni Petrillo: 18:00

one of my initial clients he's a retired lawyer quite excited about his retirement and, had all these grand plans of very big, avid golfer and was gonna hit all the golf courses, everywhere and just, have fun and enjoy the freedom. And, he quickly realized that, once he left his career as a lawyer, that he really was a little bit lost Without his title, he wasn't sure. He had worked so many years and his identity was so intertwined with his career that as much as he had passions and After a few months of playing golf, he realized that it wasn't enough for him and he didn't understand why that was. The big concern is, I have all this freedom. I have enough funding to enjoy my retirement, but I'm not happy and I don't feel fulfilled. So we quickly went into a few exercises that I like to use. for anybody post-career. And, and one of them is, who am I beyond my work activity? And that really helps you understand your core values, your passions. And we, when we did that exercise, we realized that he really likes to coach and to work with young professionals, from a mentoring capacity. So we explored that opportunity and, Shortly after he ended up stepping into that role as one of the mentors for young professionals in the, some of the law firms that he used to, that he knew. and that's what he is doing today, is just mentoring young professionals on all the ins and outs. and he's absolutely happy. And such gratitude that we were able to get there together.

Kathleen Mundy: 19:37

that truly is, an example of success for sure.

Toni Petrillo: 19:40

was,

Kathleen Mundy: 19:41

Thank you for sharing that.

Yasmin Nguyen: 19:43

Yeah. Toni, what's been most fulfilling for you to be able to support and guide people through this journey?

Toni Petrillo: 19:51

For me, it's really raising the awareness and, knowing that there are resources. and this is where we started at the beginning is when I did retire, I was struggling with my own identity and even though I had a plan of more or less what I wanted to do in retirement. I could imagine with how people struggle without a plan and just go into retirement saying, oh, I have all this freedom. I don't need to plan. I think my biggest, I. Where I get the most joy is knowing that there are resources that we're building, and not just myself, I work very closely with other retirement coaches as well. with one of my colleague retirement coaches, Jennifer, we wrote a, retirement workbook that we built these exercises together. and this is out there for them, so whether they want our coaching services, if they feel that whatever. they're at in terms of retirement planning. if they wanna do it themselves and try to see if they could plan for it, then our book is available or other books are available. I'm just happy that we are together raising an awareness for. Anybody that is in retirement and not feeling happy, feeling alone, feeling disconnected, and to be honest with you, a lot of them are very ashamed to put up or embarrassed to put up their hand and say, I'm not happy in retirement, that I'm not sure why, for fear that people will judge them. So knowing that we've created resources and my practice is there to help them, I feel very grateful for that.

Yasmin Nguyen: 21:23

Wow, that's really powerful. Thank. Thank you, Toni. Hey, when we talk about all these different non-financial challenges and transitions that people might face as a financial planner, how do you connect the dots between those? experiences that people may be going through with the implication of it financially. as those things come up, like how do you connect the dots between, the financial planning piece with the non-financial life pieces that's going on in people's lives?

Toni Petrillo: 21:53

so this is something that I used to coach my financial planners all the time when I was reviewing their plans, right? I would ask them, okay, so here's your financial plan. You've created a good map in terms of how much they're going to need, annually and live on, and how long the money will last. And then I said, tell me a little bit more about the client. What are their dreams in retirement? What do they wanna do? how do they wanna spend their time? and. They could tell me a little bit about the client, but not a lot. They know all the financials. They know exactly what their risk profile is and what kind of investments they like, and we have to, that's our due diligence. We have to get that. But I said just tell me a little bit more about the client and talk to me about them. And I wait. And I, the pause is quite long because they don't have a lot to say. So I said, we need to dig a little bit deeper. And at the end of the day, the way I connect the dots, Yasmin, is I tell them, how can you actually build a financial plan for a client if you don't know what their lifestyle how can you plan for that if you don't know that's what they wanna do? So that's how I connect the dots. I.

Kathleen Mundy: 22:54

So it's always about a complete understanding. and a deep one at that and trying to source out that information without seeming to, be judgmental or to invade a little bit of their privacy. so I think that's a fine line when you're an advisor and you're dealing with, quite frankly, the unknown for them as well, because it's a path that they, from what you've under just explained, they don't understand how to navigate that path.

Toni Petrillo: 23:22

Exactly. and at the end of the day, it's what we've been saying. Retirement planning today really has two parts to the equation. There's the financial plan and the lifestyle plan, and it's, you need to prepare for both, and that's what I tell everyone right now going forward. That's what we need to integrate. And I challenge that head on with anybody who I'm speaking to and is, we have to have those two parts.

Yasmin Nguyen: 23:43

And I imagine along with that, Toni is that when someone really feels seen and heard and understood, it deepens that level of trust as well. I.

Toni Petrillo: 23:54

and that's my hook with the financial advisors. Is I tell them, We're in the business of building trust with our clients. It's not just about the investments and before they hand over their portfolio to you. They have to know that they can trust you. And we're in the business of building trust, and if you only talk about money, it will solve money problems. It won't solve the emotional and psychological concerns that they may have. So you need to dig deeper a little bit.

Yasmin Nguyen: 24:20

Wow. or, Toni, I'm curious what, if you could just give one piece of advice for someone who is preparing for retirement, what would that be? I.

Toni Petrillo: 24:30

So if I've learned anything in terms of even my own experience is, um. you need to have an open mindset, and you have to look at what's ahead of you and not what you're leaving behind. And, always stay curious and know what's out there for you. Be flexible and give yourself some time to adjust and, surround yourself with very inspiring people. And, that will be a good guide for you to get started. for what I feel are the best chapters in your life.

Kathleen Mundy: 25:01

Toni, you've given us so many lessons to take from this interview. I'm wondering, what lesson have you learned from your clients?

Toni Petrillo: 25:10

I think the biggest lesson for me, Kathleen, is that there's really no right way to retire. really is individual. it's a, an individual journey and it's a very personal journey for everyone. If I got anything from my coaching career in, in, in coaching in my career is that everybody is unique and their retirement journey is going to be unique as well. like I said, the key is just stay flexible. Remember to embrace change and be open to it. And because at the end of the day, and just embrace what truly brings you joy and fulfillment.

Yasmin Nguyen: 25:46

Wow. this conversation has definitely brought us joy and fulfillment as well. And Toni, we're so grateful that we get a chance to spend time together and just the wisdom and insights that you've been able to share with us. Where can our listeners find out more and learn more about your work?

Toni Petrillo: 26:02

sure. So you can, find me on LinkedIn, Petrillo Antoinette Petrillo, it's my full name. You, I also contribute, on a regular basis to a, magazine called Booming Encore. I. good friend of mine, Susan Williams, found that and is running it. And, we run a, segment called Ask a Retirement Coach. So I often have, contribute to that segment as well. And obviously, there's my website, there's a lot of resources there, free guides. Called, Retire With Intention. So I invite you to take a look around, take a look at that, and it's really bent to help people design a, a, a happy and fulfilling retirement.

Yasmin Nguyen: 26:42

Wonderful. we'll make sure to include all of those resources in our show notes so we can access directly. Kathleen, any final thoughts before we wrap up?

Kathleen Mundy: 26:51

every time we have a conversation, I learn things and, I, I have learned so much and it was attitudinal as much as a hard, fast. conversation. I think the one thing that I learned is to have an open mind and be flexible and a reinforcement that everyone's journey is different, and it sounds to me as though you're on top of those, multitude of changes and opportunities for people. So I wanna thank you so much for bringing those to us today, and we look forward to hearing more about what your journey is like.

Toni Petrillo: 27:23

Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having this conversation. I enjoyed it thoroughly,

Yasmin Nguyen: 27:29

Thank you for taking the time to join us today. If you enjoyed this episode or found it valuable, please subscribe, follow, and leave a comment or review on your favorite platform. If you have friends, clients, or loved ones who are retired or thinking about retirement, we invite you to share this show with them. Check out the show notes with links to resources mentioned in this episode at RealRetirementShow. com. Remember, retirement is a joyful journey we get to experience together. Join us next week for another Real Retirement Conversation.