Jeff and Deana: 0:00

There's something that we learned that we wish we would learn early on in our marriage. And that is to take two cars to a party and to be okay with that. And so not always, but sometimes we will take two cars because I know I want to hang out and talk to people and I'm not ready to go home early for hours and hours. Yeah. Whatever. Not that long, but I like people and that's what fills my cup is engagement with people. Kathleen, I can tell this is resonating deeply.

Kathleen: 0:32

are giving me a playlist. I totally love this. And the one thing that I hear more than anything throughout all of your conversation is respect.

Yasmin: 0:53

Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show. My name is Yasmin, here with my co host Kathleen. Whether you're retired or thinking about retirement, we delve into the multifaceted world of retirement beyond the finances. This isn't your typical retirement conversation. It's a vibrant journey into what retirement truly means in today's world. We bring you real stories from real retirees and experts discussing real challenges Surprises, joys, heartaches, and the myriad of emotions that come with retirement. From addressing family dynamics, to mental and physical health, to finding purpose, we tackle the issues that truly matter to retirees and those thinking about retirement. In this episode, join us as we delve into the compelling story of Jeff and Deana, a couple who epitomizes living intentionally. From their initial college romance to navigating the complexities of marriage, parenting, and now the threshold of retirement, their journey is a testament to the power of intentionality in shaping a life filled with purpose and connection. Jeff and Deana share their insights on how to stay present, embrace life's challenges, and invest in relationships that enrich the soul. Whether you're nearing retirement, re evaluating your priorities, or seeking inspiration to live more deliberately, this conversation promises to enlighten, inspire, and perhaps even transform your approach to life and relationships. Tune in to discover how to fill your cup, navigating the dynamics of long term partnership and live each day with intention and grace. Let's join our conversation., Jeff and Deana, thank you so one of the reasons why I was excited to invite you both to join us was just in a previous conversation with Jeff. He was just talking about how both of you are so intentional about how you spend your time and your resources and with family and. And it just reminds me of the importance of intentionality as we step into retirement. So Welcome.

Jeff and Deana: 3:03

Thank you.

Yasmin: 3:04

would you share a little bit about your personal journey?

Jeff and Deana: 3:09

Well, I studied social work and did a little bit of work in the schools prior to having kids. And then I took about 14 years off to raise our children, and then ventured back, Spent about 16 years working under the Providence Newberg Health Foundation, coorDeanating volunteers in a variety of programs for seniors and children who experience disabilities and their families. so I have a real heart for seniors and actually they were some of my biggest teachers. I have to say shout out to all the strong for lifers that are still out there. that was one of the programs that I oversaw. now I'm working for, another, Lutheran Community Services Northwest in our county, also coorDeanating volunteers to come alongside families in crisis. working with church communities largely, to provide circles of support for folks who just need a little extra, care and, attention as they are walking through really difficult seasons of life. and we met in college. Yep, and he asked me out for a whole bunch of dates. I asked her out because I was so nervous. And back then we had to actually use phones to call, and, I asked her out for three, three different dates. At the same phone call because I thought I could get one out of three, I was playing the smart game. She had captured my attention my senior year in college. Yeah. And that's when we started dating, got married. we were living in California and are pretty much native Oregonian Idahoans. We celebrate 36 years. Yeah, I got to get it right. 36 or 37 years of marriage this year. And, what I like to say is that, probably 33 of them, 33 and a half of them have been awesome. And yes, we both see that life, you know, life is real. So we get to embrace it all.

Kathleen: 5:04

congratulations on that. That's an amazing, feat. I'm going to say that, it is that sometimes.

Jeff and Deana: 5:10

So, my career, started here in this town where we live at a university. And I worked in residence life and did a bunch of things with students then and then had another. A job in the university that oversaw camps and challenge courses and retreat centers and all of that good stuff. And then spent my last eight years in the college of business with running programs there for, graduate students, undergrad students. And then I've been on my own doing my own business consulting and coaching for the last 10 years. And it's good. It's really good.

Yasmin: 5:46

Jeff, what is the name of your business?

Jeff and Deana: 5:49

My business name is intentionality.

Yasmin: 5:51

There we

Kathleen: 5:52

There, perfect.

Jeff and Deana: 5:53

Yeah, I like to say on purpose and with purpose that everything we do and everything I do, I want to be on purpose and with clear purpose, and that's somewhat what we're talking about today.

Yasmin: 6:06

That's the theme, and so I'm curious, what does it mean for both of you to live intentionally?

Jeff and Deana: 6:15

For me, it's getting up each day and saying, what does this day hold? And maybe it's going to bed the night before and saying, what does tomorrow hold and how do I choose to embrace that? and a goal I've had most of my life, and it's really difficult to do, is, to be present where I'm at, at all times. And so that's to be present here. And I'm one of those guys that is easily distracted. So that's been a big challenge for me, but that's in short, that's what it means for me to live intentionally is to pay attention and show up and be present. Yeah, that's a big question. Really. there's a lot of pieces of things for me that I work to, incorporate into my life Because I also have a goal of being present where I am and bringing my best self to the world. and I'm more of an introvert. So I have a different set of things that I do that help take care of my soul, mind, body, soul, spirit, so that I can be present and with the people that I work with, the people that I walk alongside, my family, I see life as journey of listening, like listening to what truth is my truth to listening to, other people, but also for me, what is the invitation for me today? to be of service, to others, but also what is, what do I need to listen to that's happening internally so that I can, again, be present with that so that I can show up for others.

Kathleen: 7:50

you mentioned something, both of you speak of being present and we hear that so much. And yet there are many people who are struggling with that process. Can you explain a little bit to us today how we can embrace the art of being present and putting the other things aside that seem to crowd in a little bit, especially because I think that many people who retire, experience loneliness. And I think sometimes it's because they're not living in the present and really appreciating what's there and what offers they have and opportunities they have.

Jeff and Deana: 8:24

I guess the first thing that comes to my mind is I think it's so important to do our soul work, whatever that looks like, or however you interpret that. But, for me, that's included things like therapy, it's included meeting with a spiritual director. it's included, having good friends that, can speak into my life. and. Yeah. I think as we get older, it becomes even more important that we have done that work. And if, and it's not ever too late either to start that, like you can start that if you're in that position now and you're like, Oh, I never did that. And it's starting to create barriers for me and my relationships and, how I want to live this next phase of my life. there's lots of resources. And I feel like, even the pandemic, created a lot of opportunities to learn online, but there are resources in every community for things like that.

Kathleen: 9:22

That's great. Thank you. can you elaborate a little bit? What is your, method?

Jeff and Deana: 9:28

a good hard question, Kathleen, because it is in this day and age of Stuff bombarding us. I believe that we are in charge of what we allow to bombard us. So if I've got a phone that is going to have a lot of stuff on it, I'm in charge of that. I can do what I can do with that. And I can decide if I want it to have lots of bells and whistles, or if I don't want it to talk to me and make any noise or any bright lights or sounds or anything. So ultimately it's being in charge of Where I'm at. So even things that I do in my coaching world and I do with my friends and things I've learned along the way for a phone, I learned that just sitting on the table is a distraction. I put it in my bag when I'm meeting with people. So it's not even there because subconsciously that's taking me away from the conversation. you know, there's mindfulness practices of whether I'm looking at the windshield wipers in the car and paying attention and being aware or, you know, Using the tactile touch and being aware so I can show up, for the meetings and times that I'm getting together and doing work or with friends. If I'm aware, I will take a deep breath or two or five before I step into whatever said meeting that is, whether it's online or in person. so those are a few things that come to mind. it's being aware with our senses. Right. it's the mindfulness practices and again, being intentional. and I think I would add to that. Everybody kind of has their own journey with this and everybody's we sort of have to like, try a few things and figure out what works for you or what sort of connects you in those ways. And so I would say that it's been a meandering journey, at least for me, as I've been, trying out a lot of different things and, accepting myself as who I am, which is very different than who Jeff is, and what he needs. And so I think. there's just an invitation to, explore.

Yasmin: 11:31

Jeff, you. had mentioned the word practice and I'm curious to learn a little bit more about what are the ways in which you practice presence and specifically presence for ourselves because we certainly can be present for others, but what are the ways in which you take time for yourselves and the things that you do in addition to you mentioned mindfulness and Deana, you mentioned meditation, but what are some other ways that you practice your presence for yourself?

Jeff and Deana: 11:57

that's a great question. this morning, this spot right here, actually, where we're sitting, is a space that I look out this window with my cup of coffee in the morning. So that's how I start. And I don't start at 6am like this beautiful person right here. And I don't go out and run like she just did this morning, five miles. I sit with my cup of coffee. And so the uniqueness of what is it to step into the day and be aware. so for one is to do that. A practice I've had to work against is getting caught up with the news. And reading any kind of news feeds and setting that aside and reading a book or listening to a podcast. I've dabbled in meditation on and off and struggled with that. I just, I find myself getting way, way too distracted. Morning pages, just free writing. that was a good exercise for a while. So I've got the personality that likes to just kind of bop around and routine becomes boring to me.

Kathleen: 13:02

Boy, I've got one just like you.

Jeff and Deana: 13:07

And I'm just the opposite. And the two of you need to talk because it drives her crazy at times. And we get to learn to live with that, right? Because we're so unique and different and beautiful. That's what's cool. It's just beautiful. It's really cool to see that, he teaches me so much and I hope I, You do. we learn from each other, which is really cool too.

Kathleen: 13:27

was thinking of something about how well you communicate with each other and how different that communication is with yourself and with one another. But, how would you navigate different ways in which you fill your cup?

Jeff and Deana: 13:43

movement is just absolutely necessary. so I do a lot of different things around movement. so I walk, I run, but this morning I'm also stopping and I'm examining all the new, little. Flowers that are coming up and the way that the dew is on the leaves and, just, enjoying putting my hands in the water of the little creek that I crossed and, you know, just taking in what's here. I do yoga. I've actually, the last, few months have been experimenting with dancing in the morning, which sounds kind of silly, but I've been dancing my prayers and, the things like just welcoming the day with the dance, I keep all the curtains closed, but I, so I feel a little silly, even letting people know, but it's something that, I am trying. in my own way to embody what I'm feeling. And that allows me, like back to your question, it allows me to get in touch. So with what, what I am feeling, my body is often the way that I like feel tension or figure out that something's off. And so learning to listen to those signals, yoga is really good for that, of course, too. gardening, putting my hands in the dirt. All of those things are really important. And then of course I, I hike out, in all of the wilderness spaces that are near and far. I want to go to as many of them as I can before I die. So there's just such beauty everywhere. I find it's so fascinating even to go to the desert and to be with those plants and see how they grow and, observe them in, these extremes, there's beauty everywhere. So I, of course I love our maritime, climate here, but anyway. I know it's been a long week when Deana says, okay, so what are our plans this weekend? And then quickly followed by, I have to get to the woods. I need to go to the woods, to the forest, to be To be along water and again, living here in Oregon where we do, there's so many opportunities and we fill our cups in different ways. I, that fills me up to be out in nature. if it's going to be a long hike, I can get a little grumpy. It's you know, let's do a few other things. And once I get out there, it's fantastic. Deana has taught me so many things about being present in nature. And we'll even stop along the trail and take these micro moments. That's what I call them. I think you've got a name for it, but it's a micro moment of just stopping being still and listening for longer than a minute, which feels like eternity, but amazing things that can be taken in. That I would never recognize if I just kept on clunking down the trail. For me to fill my cup though is very different. Yesterday I was up at Mount Hood, two hours from here skiing by myself. Drove up there. I love adrenaline types of activities more so. And, I even have an app on my phone that will tell me how fast I'm going. So sometimes I want to see, it tells me how many runs I did, how many vertical feet. And so yesterday was the top speed was 32. 5 miles an hour. It's Oh, that's not fast enough. So I've got this competitive space in me that can be, Not always great. That's a little scary. I tell him not to tell me. I just want to know that he's home. I promise I'll call her before I leave the mountain and let her know that I didn't break any bones and that I didn't ski through the trees by myself. but, so going to the mountains for me is to do those kinds of activities. We love together. We backpack in the summertime. we'll go out at five, seven days at a time and carry everything on our backs And I met a lady yesterday at the lodge. So I, what I like in this practicing retirement phase right now is being able to go up, go ski a few runs, come back in. And then I had a coaching call, executive leadership coaching call with a guy from Nebraska. So I'm online looking at my phone. Technology's incredible. Sitting in the middle of this lodge, ski lodge and talking with my client and working through some big stuff with some personnel issues they got going Didn't realize I'm taking up the whole table and this lady, and all of a sudden it's lunchtime and it's loud, but I'm just, I somehow have that ability just to focus in and she goes, can I sit here? Anyway, short story long or long story short, I got off my call and Then I got to talking to her. She's 65. I turned 60 this next month. And she was telling her story, and she goes, yeah, I've decided to start skiing again. And found out that she sea kayaks, she skis, she bikes, and she lives five miles from where we live. all of a sudden the world shrunk. And here is someone who's taking care of herself. And I was wondering, does she have a husband? does he go with her? And so we got into some of that and she goes, you know, he hasn't chosen to live as well in regards to his body and his diet. And I refused to sit at home and do nothing. And so we talked about clubs that she's joined and people she's met to be able to be in the space, to do things that she loves that fill her cup. So it was a great conversation. And now I know a couple of clubs that we need to take a look at so that we can connect with people that like similar activities. We're always looking for people on the trail. It's can we meet someone our same age that hikes about the same pace so we can get some hiking friends that, so we're still working on that.

Yasmin: 19:40

I love how proactive both of you are in pursuing the experiences that fill your cup. And I'm curious, as you have each shared different ways in which you do so, how do you communicate or how do you navigate when you have different interests, different needs at different points in time to stay in sync?

Jeff and Deana: 20:04

We have lots of comments. It's a lot of talking. Yeah. I think also just. Learning to give each other, grace and space and space and like this, these things that I'm doing, I think probably early on, like Jeff probably did that. For himself more than I did. And so then I was feeling angry and frustrated and how can we get to do that? And I don't get it. So as a part of my process and journey and therapy around okay, what are the things that I need to be doing to fill my cup? And so as, since we're both engaged in that, then there's a lot more. I feel like generosity in our relationship around you need this. I'm so glad you're getting to do this because I know this fills your cup and we'll often tell each other that I'm so glad you're doing that, go enjoy that, cause I know you're going to come back, rejuvenated and, Ready to be here in, in our relationship. So I think that, yeah, there's something that we learned that we wish we would learn early on in our marriage. And that is to take two cars to a party and to be okay with that. And so not always, but sometimes we will take two cars because I know I want to hang out and talk to people and I'm not ready to go home early for hours and hours. Yeah. Whatever. Not that long, but I like people and that's what fills my cup is engagement with people. Kathleen, I can tell this is resonating deeply.

Kathleen: 21:37

are giving me a playlist. I totally love this. And the one thing that I hear more than anything throughout all of your conversation is respect. that is woven through how you speak about one another and the quest for enjoying the opportunities the other person is having, not needing to be involved, but enjoying it through them. that's comes across loud and clear. So I just really want to praise you for that because, those are the kinds of things that I think, you share with people and they become more like that through osmosis.

Jeff and Deana: 22:18

Yeah. and I've even shared with some friends that we take two cars and they're like, that would really help us. Because there becomes that tension point. And it's you know, we love each other and it's not that we don't, we love each other so much that let's do some things differently. And I'll go to a jazz concert at nine o'clock at night when a friend invites me at eight o'clock. And Deana's no way in heck, am I going to do that? That's stupid. and I'm going, bring it on. I like things like that. and then still do things where I go, I don't, I'm not feeling it. And yet, yeah, let's go. And we were talking last night. I was with a group of buddies that also fills my cup. We get together about every three, four weeks and they're called my deep water brothers. And, we just get together and share our lives and don't fix each other and it's fantastic.

Kathleen: 23:12

that is, that's a profound statement. Don't fix each other.

Jeff and Deana: 23:18

we don't, we listen and it's hard work. And, It's so refreshing for me. So that's another thing that fills my cup. And then I have what, so tonight I'm getting together with my rogue sisters for the same reason they're, my, I call them the wild women. but we are journeying together right through life and, holding space for one another. It's been a really powerful place. Powerful relationship. Those relationships are really powerful. Yeah. I was thinking about something else that we learned that was really helpful is the words I am noticing. so starting a conversation with, I am noticing it's a way that's allowed us to talk about harder things. Somebody saying, this is really annoying me. and it's also helpful for us when we're doing that, then we can be a mirror for one another so we can grow, you know, as people. Yeah.

Kathleen: 24:18

Well, it sounds to me like you've grown a lot and, Yasmin, you've, I know you've got, he's so quiet and so wonderful. We are so not the same. And, I know he's got a plethora of questions that he's a little anxious to, to put out there. So I will stop. And I will let you, move forward for a second,

Yasmin: 24:40

No, Kathleen, if you were to listen to some of our podcasts, conversations prior to this, we'd be jumping in all over each other. And I think it's part of our learning process, part of how we navigate and appreciate and respect one another I love that fact that not only are you Practicing the habits of filling your cup during this period of time as a means of practicing retirement. But you're also practicing your relationships as well, too, because so often we find couples, partners that all of a sudden have an abundance of time with each other, where they have been out of practice in communicating and relating and respecting one another, that it becomes a source of conflict and stress. And I so appreciate that You're mindful and intentional about doing that now, building that muscle. So as you have more and more time together, you're able to appreciate the differences that you have, but also the commonalities that you get to share.

Jeff and Deana: 25:48

don't want to be ships passing in the night with no ports in sight. We want to be aware and that, again, it's not easy peasy. it takes work. and we've learned a lot of things along the way, obviously, as we're talking and we'll continue to learn and for us, that's also a piece that is a common thread of learning, of keeping our minds engaged, of listening to podcasts, of exchanging ideas in different subjects. We have very different subjects that we like to explore. And so I've gotten to travel the globe with Deana Travel by watching YouTube videos of people all over the world with van life and hiking and exploring and plants and this and this. And I've gotten to learn. Which has been fantastic. And other times we'll sit here in the house and she's on her computer watching something. I'm on my computer watching something and they're very different. I've listened to a lot of business podcasts that I would never listen to. But you know, there's certainly a lot of overlap, right? In being, doing business well and walking alongside people, which is, my work. So I think there's a lot of overlap. So it's been good to learn

Kathleen: 27:04

it sounds to me as though you've really approached this as a partnership and we talked a little bit about some of the stressors that happen when, people retire and now they're full time together and they're trying to navigate that. And one of the things that's sometimes crops up is the financial end of it. and they're not on the same page. what's your approach to finding a, Oh, I see. I've hit a nerve. I think some commonality about your finances.

Jeff and Deana: 27:37

I think I'll just shut up at this point. Oh, we have struggled with this one, but you know, I think, let's see. So we, in short, It has just definitely been, an area of tension in our relationship for a lot of years. what helped us was creating a budget that we both agreed on. so we had some, we had a planner, a financial planner that kind of helped us preparing a financial wealth advisor, huge marital therapy, you know, helped us like, okay, your task is to, create a budget that you both agree on and then how do we do that? How do we work that out? that's been really helpful for us. and then, having conversations around, well, what are we going to give and who are we going to give to and taking turns, getting to decide, with our extra, how we're going to support people in our community. So we have, that has been fun. and part of that, creating that budget that we both agree on. has been giving, we gave each other mad money. So we each have a little line item with a little bit of mad money that we get to, nobody else gets to decide what we do with, and we have very different approaches of what happens with that. and what are some other things around that, that you can think of? it seemed like there was something else that was good. Yeah. It's been a commitment to what is enough, you know, and that's an important question. I think at this stage in life and throughout life, what's enough money or what's time. What's enough friends? What's enough, what's enough clothes. We have so much excess in this world. So to the money, as you well know, I'm guessing is the emotions of money create, Often not this, but this and we came from very different backgrounds and I'm an emotional spender and she's an emotional saver and in short, and that created its opportunities to have some really hard conversations and having someone that we meet with to talk about our money has been really helpful and then making commitments. This is we're in this together. And then I don't feel, I would feel punished. we can't spend this. And I just, I want to go have experiences and do stuff, you know, and realizing that if we want to do that, really being committed to doing this so that we have that to do this. So I, we could spend three or four hours talking about all the things that we've learned, in, in that regard.

Kathleen: 30:36

Takeaway here, though, is that you had someone who, quite frankly, coached you through that process. And then you were committed to it, and were consistent with it, and you had those common goals decided and designed together. So I think that's a beautiful way to approach that whole element of retirement.

Jeff and Deana: 30:59

Thank God for Jerry. Jerry is a savior. And we realized one of the best ways, we just realized this. We were traveling to Idaho and we had our yearly financial planning session and we had to make a last minute trip kind of thing. And so we sat in a park in a beautiful forest. That is a place that Deana loves and the. The internet worked well enough and we sat outside in the pine trees. Jerry's in his office back here and had our meeting. And so that's the best. It's like, why have we not had those kinds of meetings where we're sitting in this very conducive space where that takes that out of the

Kathleen: 31:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. That is exactly. That's a really good. We should coin that phrase because I called it yuck, but I love what you just said. It's very challenging and emotions percolate. during that conversation. And sometimes they're not always positive. So I really admire your approach. But

Jeff and Deana: 32:06

I grew up with not a lot. And so that sense of, hanging on. So part of my soul work, right, has been learning to loosen up and approach things with more open hands, so it's not just him not spending wildly, but it's also me learning to spend. And to enjoy it. and I get excited when she spends money, because then I don't feel as guilty. And we're coming back from Idaho in a long, hard week. And we may touch on this, but with Deana's parents and hospice and conversations around all of having, you know, elderly parents, And we really needed to kind of detox before we step back into life here as we know it. And Deana, who does not like hot water. I love natural hot springs and I love hot tubs. Just the opposite. She'll sit on the edge of the hot tub. I'm hot already. and she's going, let's stop at this place on the way back. Wouldn't that be great? And I'm going, I didn't want to get too excited. It was a natural hot springs kind of place. And we spent more money than we would typically spend on a meal to sit in these hot tubs and overlook this beautiful lake. And it was fantastic. So, all right, we're spending, you know, she's been set free. So I got to be careful.

Kathleen: 33:31

sounds like you prioritize together.

Jeff and Deana: 33:35

and we were, talking as we're caring for my parents, like the importance of also caring for our ourselves in this journey, because we're still working, we've got lots of commitments. And that was a piece of what, so we stopped at this beautiful place. I like that we found, Campground and, the area they're restoring down by a river, and on the way, and then on the way back, we stopped at the hot springs. So yeah, it was good. and I don't feel guilty, which also feels good. Bottom line, it's about values. We've determined what our values are, what's important to us, and let's live into that every day.

Yasmin: 34:17

Deana, you brought up something that's I've noticed is prevalent to is our folks as they navigate into this chapter of retirement to having saved most of their lives, the they're out of practice in terms of spending or allowing themselves to be able to know that it's safe, it's okay. And you've done all you've done a lot of the hard work and planning. So it's an important, concept that. That there are a lot of folks that are navigating that as well too. going back to your relationship, I'm curious. What do you do when you get out of sync with each other? How do you get back in sync?

Jeff and Deana: 34:52

Great question. What do we do?

Kathleen: 34:55

Sounds like you're not out of sync very much.

Jeff and Deana: 34:58

I'm thinking I, we give each other space. There are times, I've had to learn to say, do you need me to listen? Do you need me to coach? Do you need advice? What do you need right now in this conversation that I can tell is really important to you? Because I've been the advice, jump in and I'm going to fix it. Impatient. It's not that hard. Come on. This is not science rocket. We can get through this and just to simply shut up. and that's difficult. And I don't always do that. Yeah. We keep practicing and working at that. So I think space is part of when we're not in sync. Yeah, and I think for me too, I like to fix him too. I think it goes both ways. So part of our journeys, right, has been learning to not do that and to listen. I think sometimes we go on walks. When we need to like, yeah, that's a really good thing. Cause then I'm moving my body, which is helpful

Kathleen: 35:59

Right. That's right.

Jeff and Deana: 36:02

it's not a bad thing for him as well. And, that's a, you know, we're also in public, so it also

Kathleen: 36:09

I don't know what you're going

Jeff and Deana: 36:12

reduces what, I know, no, it's a good, it's a good way to kind of come back to the respect place. Right. And it's, growing up, we have three kids, adult children now, and it's sometimes giving ourselves a time out. Back when our kids were little, we had a chair that we called Australia. And you need to go to Australia right now. not timeout because timeout is punishment, but go hang out in Australia. I can't tell you how many times I sent myself to Australia, because dad needed a break. And I think we kind of have that practice without calling it that. I need space. and also it's a commitment to come back to X, Y, Z subject. So it's not I'm gonna step away. We're out of sync. It's, I need space. I didn't want to think about this and we'll come back. And the other thing is that we've given each other permission to speak truth kindly, to be direct. This is what I need. I really struggled with saying this is what I need, not want. This is what I need from her right now. And that's hard to say. It's hard to say. It's hard to hear. Yeah,

Kathleen: 37:28

to come up with these really profound methods? Because, as you're speaking them, they seem kind of simple and yeah, they make sense and it's logical, but it seems it's not as easy as it sounds. Is this an intentional journey that you took or is it through evolution?

Jeff and Deana: 37:46

it's only taken me 59 years. It'll be 60 in a couple of weeks. Yeah, I think it's been a journey of wanting, an end goal of wanting to have a good relationship with one another, right? and I think Giving ourselves permission to be seen. And I mean, cause I think so much of what we want out of life is to be seen as we are and loved anyway, and. So as we have done our own sort of internal soul work, that's a given us the capacity to give, to allow the other person to show up as they are, and to see them and to respect them and love them in that. and I think the other piece of that, as I was hearing Jeff speak was, we have. Been willing to really own our stuff, we've been willing to say, yeah, I can see how that would make you feel. I can see, I hear that. I see that. I'm so sorry. You know, like to own the things that we, when we make mistakes as humans. that's also been a part of that. That's been there all along.

Yasmin: 39:05

it's powerful. Wow. Kathleen, did you have

Kathleen: 39:08

Oh, I have a million questions because I think that what you've done is really given our listeners. really intense roadmap, although it seems soft in the edges, but it really is intentional and intense because if you don't do it, it's not going to happen. I think the point that you make is that you live intentionally and it's not by, Happenstance that your life is, that you have now has been created to, give you both the space and the ability to be yourself, but then yourselves together. And I'm just, profoundly impressed. Gray divorce is a huge issue for retirees. And I think this episode is going to be a perfect example of how to get on the path to prevent that from happening. Because there isn't any way in the world that someone with the attitudes that you've just demonstrated would end up in a courtroom. It just wouldn't happen.

Jeff and Deana: 40:13

yeah. And we've seen that happen with friends and I've seen that happen with the vacuum that all of a sudden shows up when I'm working and now I'm not. You know, I can sit in a restaurant and over here, a guy say, I've got 444 days and then I'm out of jail kind of thing. And I'm going, what a miserable life, what a bummer. And I wanted to go, dude, come on. in retirement, whatever that means, we're going to continue to serve and to work and to play and it's life. So it's living, it's living well now and being well now so that we can live and be well later. And, we were given a gift from our son, and his wife that said, we've watched Grammy and Papa and Grandpa and Grandma, our parents that are still living, which is a huge gift to us. We've watched them age and then not have the abilities physically to go do things that they wanted to do. And they gifted us with trips, surprise, unique to who we are and honoring of who we are. took Deana to the Swiss Alps to go hike Hut to Hut, and they were the tour guides, and they spent time together. I will be going next February to Japan to go powder skiing for two weeks, and they're handing this gift to us because they want to be with us now while we're in Japan. Able bodied, whatever that means, and so it's like just the fact that they gave that to us. I don't have to go on the trip. That was like, oh my gosh, this is pretty powerful. so I would like to think we've modeled some of that and helped, our kids in that space. and not to say that the journey of aging and aging parents when they're not able bodied, they're still themselves and we're still journeying with them and just in a new way. Right. and the end of life is a precious time. so yeah, not to, not that you weren't, Oh yeah. Yeah. It's a blend. Yeah. it's a blender.

Yasmin: 42:26

Well, it has been such an inspiration hearing about your journey individually as well as together. And, thank you so much for sharing with us a piece of, your experience. Cause we know that so many of, our audience members could, experience some inspiration and hope and possibilities from our conversation. So thank you.

Jeff and Deana: 42:47

Thank you.

Kathleen: 42:48

I have some takeaways.

Yasmin: 42:49

Yes. Kathleen, take it away.

Kathleen: 42:53

I will. Thank you, Yasmin. But I'm going to say this. I never take notes. This is the first time, and Yasmin can attest to this, but I want to just thank you so much for what you've brought, the kindness that you've shown. And I know that our audience is going to love listening to you. So I'm going to just be bold and I'm going to say, we need to have a recap with you guys. After you do that powder skiing, I want to. Talk to you both again because I think you've just had the most wonderful gift from your children and their attitude towards your aging parents is, so incredibly unique because I'm not hearing that from others. And I want to say thank you so much. And if anyone wants to hear more of these wonderful episodes, subscribe, please. We love to hear what you want and we're excited to bring you more of this. And I so appreciate meeting you both today and sharing this and learning so much. I love it.

Jeff and Deana: 43:54

likewise. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's been good to talk with you as well and to consider some of these questions that we don't necessarily ask ourselves.

Yasmin: 44:03

Thank you for taking the time to join us today. If you enjoyed this episode or found it valuable, please subscribe, follow, or leave a comment or review on your favorite platform. If you have friends, clients, or loved ones who are retired or thinking about retirement, we invite you to share this show with them. Check out the show notes with links to resources mentioned in this episode at realretirementshow. com. Remember, retirement is a joyful journey we get to experience together. Join us next week for another Real Retirement Conversation.