Kathleen: 0:00

we had a conversation on the weekend with a very good friend it was prime example of family dynamics at its worst and at its best. the father had a lingering illness and the siblings had been estranged there was this friction and they couldn't seem to work it out. So, our friend decided, I'm going to take The first step, and I'm going to reach out and ask to have a family meeting. He decided that he would lay some ground rules. and also prepare what the topics were going to be. And through that, they broke the silence. they found a new form of a relationship. And two months later, his father passed away.

Yasmin: 0:53

Welcome back to the real retirement show. My name is Yasmin here with my cohost, Kathleen. Whether you're retired or thinking about retirement, we delve into the multifaceted world of retirement beyond the finances. This isn't your typical retirement discussion. It's a vibrant journey into what retirement truly means in today's world. stories from real retirees and experts discussing real challenges, surprises, joys, heartaches. And the myriad of emotions that come with retirement from addressing family dynamics to mental and physical health to finding purpose, we tackle the issues that truly matter to retirees and those thinking about retirement. Today's topic is all about navigating family dynamics, our relationship with ourselves, and our partnerships. Kathleen shares a heartwarming story about learning to step back and let her grown up daughter navigate her own challenges. It's all about finding a new way to be there for each other without stepping on toes. Family dynamics is more than just parent child relationships. We'll dive into how we see ourselves and connect with our significant others. We'll share stories and tips on how to keep family ties strong by listening, sharing, and respecting each other's space. So grab a comfy seat and let's explore together how to make family life smoother and filled with more smiles. Let's join our conversation.

Kathleen: 2:26

if we talk about family dynamic, sometimes we have the impression it's our kids. At least I did, because again, I don't have any siblings. So when I talk about that, I think about, okay, how am I responding? How am I reacting to my, children? And I had a call yesterday from my middle daughter, and it was the most bizarre call. Ever.

Yasmin: 2:49

Yeah. How so?

Kathleen: 2:51

Well, she asked advice about my ex and I thought this is your relationship with your dad and I totally appreciate that, she was asking me to give her advice on his behavior. I thought, my gosh, We've been divorced for 40 years. I have a clue, on what his behavior is like, but what it told me is that everyone needs a touchstone. Everyone needs someone to reach out with someone that we can bounce ideas off or just vent and someone who might understand us.

Yasmin: 3:29

Yeah. Has your daughter reached out to you before in this capacity

Kathleen: 3:33

No.

Yasmin: 3:34

what's different? What's changed?

Kathleen: 3:36

What's changed? that's a really good question. What's changed? okay, I'll tell you what's changed. I've taken a step back because as parents, we have a tendency, and again, this goes into the family dynamics that I wanted to discuss on a podcast to begin with, is that we have roles through each stage of our life. And it's really difficult to break out of that role. And even though your children, I mean, she's in her, mid forties. So even though, our children's age and become adults and, and they have their own life, we somehow as parents get caught. In our old role. And so I'm, I've always been a problem solver. You know, I did it in my businesses. I've done it with my friends. You have a problem. Okay, let's strategize. I can figure this out and get you through it. And so I realized my role was no longer to solve her problems. My role was just to be there to support her if she needed any guidance, but not to jump in and offer it before it was asked. So I think that's the difference. And one of the things that, came to mind and it happened last year when she came to visit with her little boy with my grandson, we parent completely different. And that's when I realized, okay, I have to step back. I can't impose my methodology or my comments because it became a really stressful visit. it was not what she or I had hoped for. And so that's when I really realized, okay, the role I had as her mother is gone. It's no longer valid until she asks me for it. I can't immediately step in and start solving a problem. And I've seen so many of my contemporaries here. I don't know what to do with my daughter. Everything I say is wrong. They parents so different, I can't even feed them the food that I want to feed them. so that's I think the difference when you realize your role is completely different. And once you own that, I think your relationships alter, they change dramatically, actually, but not quickly. it's not overnight, but it's a gradual, dramatic change. So from A to B, it's dramatic. But that time frame might take a year or two, depending on how willing you are to accept the fact that your role has changed and you're no longer that controlling person who wants to guide them through life.

Yasmin: 6:29

That's such a powerful perspective, Kathleen. I think of it as when we're younger, the parents are trying to protect, trying to guide, trying to Like you said, control. And sometimes we get stuck in that mindset that as our children get to a certain point that they're like, wait a minute, I'm dependent. I know what, I know how to make decisions. Who are you to tell me this? And it causes this unnecessary conflict that it's almost like a power struggle. And to some extent, as that goes on for decades in some cases, we start to really. ingrain ourselves in that dynamic of our relationships. And as you shift into a different chapter of your life, all of a sudden, as you start to pull back an accept, like you said, the changes now they start to notice Oh, wow, I don't need to defend my position. I don't need to protect and all of a sudden the ice kind of melts. Right. But like you said, it takes time. One or two occasion like, uh, we'll see if that's, that's going to stick, but over time as you have, I think it really shifts your dynamics with your children.

Kathleen: 7:46

true, Yasmin, I really think that every relationship has a life expectancy. So the relationship that I had as a mother parenting a young child, that relationship is over. Now it's a new relationship and it will have a life expectancy. If. You allow it to grow and develop the way it's intended. And I think oftentimes we try to force things. Sometimes it's friendships. I see things within siblings. I mean, I have four children. They all don't get along. And yet there was a time that I tried to be the mediator. I tried to intervene. I tried to get them kind of a little bit closer. We'd have family functions and things. And it was a disaster. It was, it was the typical Thanksgiving, you know, it didn't matter when. And so then I just decided, you know what, I'm going to let them do it on their own. They're adults. I said this to you before, I know I've done my job when they're independent. Wonderful people forging their lives. Now, I have to remind myself sometimes that they're independent people. But, When they reach that point and you accept it, you know the flow is just easier. The friction is gone and all you have to do is be a sounding board. You don't have to defend them. You know, he said, she said all that stuff actually happens again when you get to. a trauma in your life, or whether losing someone or a disastrous health situation. That's when this dynamic reappears. It surfaces its terrible teeth because you just want to bite into the next person. And I remember when you did that and you've always been the, you know, that kind of a. But again, because I'm an only child, I never ever experienced that. And when I see my children do it, I think, wow, you can't do that. That's not right. Well, but it is right. that's the way they're living their life. So who am I to tell them what's right or wrong? there is no right, there is no wrong. It is the way they're living their life.

Yasmin: 9:59

I'm curious, Kathleen, what your thoughts are in terms of how involved someone may be with their children at this stage of retirement, if they have a lot of other things on their plate, or if they just have a lot of time and they're just sitting there noodling around. What's going on with my children? do you think there's a difference if you've got lots of things occupying your mind, your time, your energy versus someone who may have an abundance of time to maybe focus on their children?

Kathleen: 10:34

Absolutely, Yasmin. I think that, that what happens, and I've seen it, parents become dependent. So it's role reversal. they look to their children to fill their lives. And maybe the kids did throughout the hockey and the soccer and the baseball and the dance lessons. And That was the way they filled their life. But as your family develops and grows and changes, sometimes parents get stuck and then as they retire, especially if they don't have daily activities that prepare them to take a portion of their life and time out of their day to do something else, they become dependent. on calling every day. again, I lost my mom when she was, I was so young. I never ever had that, but I know my friends. Oh, my, I, my mom calls me every day. Well, that would drive me nuts, you know, but, but they do. And if they don't have specific activities, You know, if their day timer isn't full, even two activities a day, you know, a walk in the morning and maybe bridge in the afternoon, it doesn't have to be, you're writing a book or you're, climbing a mountain but it just needs to have something in there. A blank page is, I think, the downfall of retirees. That blank page can trigger sadness. Which ultimately, or could develop into depression and I think that, your page has to have something on it. And once you do that, you don't rely on, on your children so much. I think the one thing that I've learned, as my kids have developed their own lives, your role as a parent is to give them everything you can. You can teach them, you can mentor them, but once their wings are developed and they're gone, you have to sit back and just see when they visit. on our property, we've got lots of birds, I see generations of little ones kind of grow and then they come back and the parents kind of just have to hang out and say, wow, there they go. And then there they are again. And I think that if parents took that, mindset a little bit more, I think the family dynamic would be. smoother and you're just there to support, someone who took our assessment actually scored a hundred percent in family dynamic. Now that's pretty amazing. You know, even I think I'm a great mom, but I didn't do that. But, I know this person and you know, it doesn't surprise me because all this person does is support. That's it. He doesn't offer suggestions or recommendations or I told you so, or you should do this, you should is the worst thing in the world. And. That's exactly, I think, what led him to have such a strong family dynamics. And I've met his children and his grandchildren, and they all, you just feel it, when they're in the same room. And I think he's the poster boy for, what to do. it has given me the impression and having known him for some 30 odd years.

Yasmin: 13:56

that's awesome. I love hearing that because we get a chance to learn from someone who is practicing, these types of communications, relationships, skills, as well as retirement. And, it gives us new hope and possibilities because I can imagine that growing up, we don't develop these skills. we don't have necessarily all have role models on how to communicate and relate In a loving, kind, understanding way with various others and to be able to have someone model this as well as share what are some, tips as well. How do we get a chance to experience this ourselves? I think that's, what's so fun about what we're doing right now is really sharing all these different facets of the reality. Both the challenges as well as all the amazing things that happen during retirement.

Kathleen: 14:49

Well, the Real Retirement Show is all about, offering skills and tools. To make sure that your retirement is joyful and family dynamic is part of it. And honestly, if you can't feel comfortable about what's happening within your family, I think it erodes the ability to be optimistic about other things. because they have not fulfilled, you know, they've got blank pages.

Yasmin: 15:14

you're spot on, Kathleen. It's, the blank page. And the thing is, is that there's been so many decades and years focusing on family, career, other obligations. They've never, or at least it's been so long since. They've been given a blank page, maybe since childhood, where you could just doodle and draw and do whatever you want. it's hard to even imagine what to do with a blank page, whether it be routines. What do you want to do? What do you want to eat? Where do you want to spend your time? I don't know. And like you said, when you have the blank page, it could be the start of, lots of unnecessary stress

Kathleen: 15:54

Lots of non necessary stress. So every time an episode is posted, hopefully there's going to be something that you can add to your toolbox, some way that you can get rid of the stress, because that's really what it is. and hopefully you'll be able to share it with. Neighbors and friends and learn from it and offer your own suggestions because we say this all the time. You can't do it alone. You don't have to. That's why we're here. We're not experts. You've said that, although we've got some incredible experts coming on. And I'm so thrilled about that. I cannot wait. But I think that if we just allow ourselves a little bit of relief and not demand so much, I'm That we just kind of step back and let things happen. They are right. We are right. No one's wrong. That family dynamic can really develop in a beautiful and giving way. And hopefully you'll gain the tools and skill sets as we move through our journey with as many episodes as we can. All of which I think are going to touch. They're going to always kind of come back to the dynamics within your family and your friendship. And a lot of times your friends or your family. You know, so I think that when we talk about family dynamic, it isn't just biological family. It's the family that you choose as well. And it's always the first person who puts their hand out that is the winner.

Yasmin: 17:24

It's interesting, Kathleen, when we talk about family dynamics, it's an element of focusing externally on our relationships, but we'll definitely also cover the aspect of that relationships with ourselves too. And in many ways, our relationship with ourselves. the dynamics that we have with others. And so we'll actually have some experts that will help us rediscover ourselves and, understand how we're wired, understand our gifts, as well as some of our tendencies and how that affects the people in our lives. And as we shift, it's important to have these tools, like you said. And I think that the other big shift is the mindset shift.

Kathleen: 18:10

Mhm.

Yasmin: 18:11

Really thinking about things in a different way like you said, your role as a parent with your children changes. It's the way that you think about that, that also impacts the behaviors that come out. And so there's layers and layers of, richness that we get a chance to explore.

Kathleen: 18:30

You know, Yasmin, I think that's why this topic has been absolutely perfect. Prep people for what they're going to receive over the next year or two or however long. You know, we've got lots and lots of episodes, over 170 episodes that we're going to be dealing with. And because of that, it's all about mindset. You have to prepare yourself to be open and have the opportunity to really hear it. And then you get to decide when I process this, does it work for me or does it? And we don't expect that everything is going to work for everybody or everything is what everyone needs. We get that. But what we want to do is offer as much information from as many experts and storytellers and people who are actually really in. the mix of it all. we'll have everything cataloged. So we will give you an opportunity to go back and forth and revisit some of the things that you think, you know, and I heard that last month. Maybe that's what I need to go and listen to again.

Yasmin: 19:31

that variety of. Not only information, but perspectives, I think, can be very enriching because we may talk about a specific topic, but we can look at it through the lens of, let's say, someone who is, a specialist in caregiving, or perhaps a specialist in what's called non violent communications, or perhaps a relationship coach. Each one brings a slightly different perspective where At one point in time, you might not resonate, but then when someone says it a different way or looks at it through just a slightly different angle, it clicks and our hope is that something clicks at least for you or someone, you know, and, that this is something that is a meaningful. experience that you can take with you.

Kathleen: 20:20

You know, that lens that you're talking about. is really important to remember. I'm going to just tell you a really brief little story. we had a conversation on the weekend with a very good friend who just lost his father. And it was prime example of family dynamics at its worst and at its best. So, of course, the father had a lingering illness and the siblings had been estranged and that resulted in kind of an estrangement between one of the siblings and the parent because there was this friction and they couldn't seem to work it out. So, our friend decided, I'm going to take The first step, and I'm going to reach out and ask to have a family meeting. And it was brilliant because without any help, he decided that he would lay some ground rules. and also prepare what the topics were going to be. And through that, they broke the silence. they found a new form of a relationship. And two months later, his father passed away. But he said, I had, if I hadn't done it, I would not have had that time with my father because they healed the wounds enough so that they could revel in the time they had. And then at the end of losing his dad, a month later, he became very ill. And I thought, wow, this poor guy, he's got no luck at all. I mean, this is terrible, the crisis that he's been going through. And then they got COVID and it was just like layer upon layer upon layer of stress and anxiety. And it came out the other end. Really positive because of the way he had handled it. And he felt really, really good that he'd taken the initiative to kind of mend that wound enough to have a relationship with his father that he would not have had. And I think that that's really important to realize. people say live in the present, live in the present. And I get that. I mean, I think you should absolutely, appreciate what you have and be grateful for every day that we're here. And right now it's snowing. I'm in Ontario and you know what, I don't, I'm not crazy about the winter, but it's really beautiful. When you see the, great big flakes coming down. So I'm grateful that it's going to last two days. I'm grateful for that. But I think that it's important to make sure that you've. Think about your future. if this fellow hadn't thought about what's the future gonna be like if I don't mend this, rift between our family. And so because he had thought enough ahead that he was able to take action.

Yasmin: 23:13

what an inspiring story to hear about the time that he made with his father. That's really powerful. Kathleen. When we talk about family dynamics, it's such a broad topic. You know, we touched on the dynamics with our children, right? We talked on the dynamics with, our aging parents as well. And there's also the dynamics. Between your partner, your spouse, that certainly gets impacted and changes during this chapter, especially when perhaps you might not have had as much time throughout your career together. All of a sudden you're in each other's space and face for an extraordinary amount of time. And I'm curious, what has your experience been, with relationships or with people that you've talked about their spouse? Or their partners.

Kathleen: 24:06

well, it's on both sides. It's on each end of the spectrum. There are people who absolutely, and we've heard them. In fact, there was one in our, very first focus group that said, I can't stand the fact that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. but here's the thing, Robert said first thing this morning, I was thinking the other day, how long does it take? Okay. From the time we wake up, how long does it take until one of us is laughing? And he boiled it down to two minutes. And it was interesting because it was actually about 10 seconds this morning. And, it's true. I think that if you can laugh and have a great relationship, then, there will be a wonderful opportunity for you to spend time together. But I also think that you still need to have your own personal space. And you need to have that time to breathe. You need to have that time to bring some new interest and activity into the relationship to freshen it. We've got a whole chapter that we're going to be dealing with about how bringing the spark back into that. And I think that. that relationship, is definitely part of family dynamic and the pressure sometimes that I see our friends with that they have to do thing and one person takes over and, and they're kind of like the, um. Tour guide of their life and that other person feels really diminished in the process because all of a sudden They seem to have no control over what they're doing in life So I think that in my experience Finding joy in everything that you do even the little goofy things I think really brings a spark but it changes it develops it morphs And the relationship has to be respected for those changes. And if someone has the expectation that, okay, now that we're alone, it's going to be like, we first got together and we were dating and no, it's not. It's not at all. It's going to be completely different because you've evolved into different people. So as you evolve into different people, of course your relationship is going to evolve, I believe, and I'm certainly no expert, but I honestly believe that if two people can't find commonality, their retirement is going to be a torment.

Yasmin: 26:37

that's why we see such a high increase in divorce and separations and, We become different people at different stages, and if we're no longer aligned, sometimes like you said, it's, really difficult to maintain the quality of a relationship that we desire. And I had a conversation yesterday with a friend of mine over coffee, and she was sharing with me that the dynamics with her parents, her retired aging parents, Is really different in that her father, is more of an introvert. And he likes to just stay at home, kind of the negative, perspective, critical perspective and her mom is quite the opposite. Very extrovert, outgoing, and she wants to go and do things. And he's like, I, you know, I don't want to go anywhere. and when you're in it, that place, you have two choices. You can either like, okay, well, if he doesn't want to go, then I'm not going to go, which then develops a whole series of different emotions, resentment, frustration. And it's like that. If you have a pet that wants to get out and go run and you don't. Let them out to go run. What happens? It's going to get all that pent up energy and

Kathleen: 27:49

They chew the sofa.

Yasmin: 27:51

exactly. but the other choice is to communicate and be okay with, okay, fine. You stay at home, watch TV, do whatever I'm going to go out and I'm going to. Do things with new friends, new activities and there are ways to be able to satisfy both needs, but sometimes we feel trapped. And I think of my parents situation where my dad's kind of an introvert. He likes to stay private. My mom, I know internally, she likes to meet and go out and meet people. And, but the challenge is that just with some health challenges that she has, she's not able to drive. And so there's this dependence on him for the social outlets. And over time I've discovered that she's become withdrawn as well too. And, so I take it upon myself to try to be the catalyst for some experiences to take her out on walks to do things, but I'm noticing a shift in her as well. And so I think, there's these differences that. really show themselves during this period.

Kathleen: 28:56

You know, Yasmin, I've never had to deal with siblings or an aging parent because that didn't happen in my life. But, my husband's mom is 95 and we. decided that, he would spend time with her just one on one. And she was very, very active, very active person in the community. So when she became, unable to drive and, continue with her activities, she became a little critical about life. And I can only, understand that that was normal, but what happened. It was interesting. So we used to take her out for a drive or take her for lunch or take her this way and I realized she doesn't want my company. As much as I think I'm a great person, she wants his company. The relationship has to be between the two of them. So I said, you know what, I'm going to bow out. Why don't you guys just go and, and they would just go for a drive in the area that she was living and look at houses they had such a good time. Sometimes they wouldn't say anything. He said they would drive for an hour and maybe have 15, 20 minutes of conversation, but it was, the energy. And they were in each other's personal space. And, when she was here yesterday, she was very appreciative I did put out all of the good china and all of the silver she loves tea parties. You know, high tea. I should say high tea. So we kind of did that kind of thing. And you could see that she was really appreciative. Now she's got something to go back. There's something on, was something on her page. She now has stories to tell all of her people in the retirement home. And That helps her stay who she was. So I think that, was it something that I really wanted to do on a Monday? No, it, wasn't. My page was pretty full, so I had to kind of work around all this. But honestly, I think that if you can help understand what they did. What their life was like, and try and help bring that to them a little bit. It makes for a better dynamic because again, it's just positive energy in the same room. And I'm sure that your mom feels the same way when you do special things with her.

Yasmin: 31:21

What a gift that you have shared with, Robert's mom in that way. And it reminds me of that friend that I had mentioned with different parents. When she was thinking about what gifts do I want to give my parents, especially for the holidays, many folks. In this chapter, I've got a lot of things. Last thing you want to do is give them another thing, because chances are you'll be responsible for getting rid of it. So she thought about what brings them joy or specifically what brings him joy. And, food was the answer. And so. What she did is she started getting some gift certificates for some interesting, new, fun restaurants that they could go to together and experience. And it was a way of getting them out of the house. It was a way of them connecting with something that was joyful. it got them moving together and being able to talk as well too. So just these ideas of what can we do to change things up and invite them to a new experience.

Kathleen: 32:28

when my kids were growing up, I gave them life experiences, you know, whatever they needed, they got, but at Christmas, or at their birthdays, I would give them a life experience and it might be a theater. It might be, well. One time I sent them to Mexico and my friends thought I was crazy, but they were older at that point in time and it was all safe and wonderful. But anyway, the thing is we still do it. We still give them life experiences. And sometimes you might remember that I visited my, daughter and her husband in Mexico this year. And so I said, for Christmas, I'm giving you a visit. I'm going to come and yeah, I'm going to come and visit you. That's your Christmas gift, and it was the best Vacation it was the best time the best we've ever had together Instead of buying things for them. I bought a ticket for me So that's the way it worked, but as a result of that they are doing the same thing They said what we're gonna. Do is we're gonna plan a family visit, and we're all having a Christmas in August at our house here. So they're flying their kids in from Calgary and this is their life experience. So I think it's wonderful. I think this is our legacy.

Yasmin: 33:45

Speaking of visiting Kathleen, I'm curious what your thoughts are on retirees that have a lot of time. And maybe they're visiting, wanting to visit their kids all the time or wanting their kids or their grandkids to visit all the time. And, and what are the boundaries and what are the expectations that need to be set in order to have a, good relationship as time becomes more available. And perhaps the kids may think, Oh, well, we'll just drop the grandkids at. Grandma or grandpas, they got plenty of time. What are your experiences and thoughts on that?

Kathleen: 34:19

It really boils down to expectations and communication. we've met a couple who didn't want to live closer to their children because they were afraid they would become the instant caregivers to their grandchildren. And yet, mine are so far away that I don't see them. Some of them more than maybe once every year or two, but you know, what the beautiful thing is, we can still have relationships. And sometimes, 15 or 20 minutes is all it takes because the attention spans are pretty short sometimes. Anyway,

Yasmin: 34:53

And we can mute people too.

Kathleen: 34:56

we can't, don't you dare mute me. But, I think that in my experience, that has been the case that we have. A good friend of mine who has been retired now for 15 years. She retired so, so early from teaching and she said, I will be caregivers to my grandchildren on my time. And she told her kids that, and she's stayed true to that. And she has a wonderful relationship. and again, it was expectation and communication. So, that's what I have discovered, that works best for most, well, it works best for everybody if if everybody's on the same page.

Yasmin: 35:31

I love this conversation, Kathleen. I, because family dynamics is such big component of this retirement journey and there's so many different facets of it and I love that we're just touching on different. threads of this conversation and that we've got some experts lined up and that, we've got some retirement roundtables where we'll be inviting people to come together and share different experiences, share some insights, share some frustrations that perhaps others can support. And so I feel this is really fulfilling and joyful to be able to explore this together. and this is just one of at least almost a dozen other big topics that we get a chance to dive into.

Kathleen: 36:15

I just want to remind people, I think it's important for them to check out. Our sandbox and the events tab in that sandbox because our sandbox is a resource center where you can find all the information that we're talking about. You can get links to our podcast. You can find articles, but there's an event tab and that will have our workshops. It'll have our roundtables, our discussions, it's simple to join and we want you to get engaged with us. We want you to tell us are you interested in? What do you want to talk about? What's really worrying you? What's your story? And we invite you to join on this journey. We want to help you with yours and make it rich and joyful.

Yasmin: 36:59

Absolutely. And I'll drop the link in the show notes. It's retirement sandbox. com. And we invite you to be a part of this journey together because. You shouldn't have to do this by yourself. and retirement doesn't come with a roadmap with specific steps and instructions that you assemble the, piece of furniture or anything like that. But the thing is, is that. We're here. We, know a lot of people. We're curious. There's a lot of others and we want to learn. We want to invite you to be a part of this learning experience and then applying it in your lives.

Kathleen: 37:36

And share it with your friends. You don't know what you don't know about what your friends are going through or family members. Share it with your kids for heaven's sakes, because there's going to be episodes that will help them understand you.

Yasmin: 37:51

I certainly didn't know what I didn't know, and wow, within a short span of a year, holy cow, I feel like I've only scratched the tip of the iceberg here. And, we're looking forward to learning more.

Kathleen: 38:04

You know, Yasmin, when you said that it's, kind of like assembling a toy. The first thing that came to mind, I had a son who loved Lego. It's like Lego, you know, there's all kinds of parts and it's, it's up to you as to how you put them all together., that's what this is all about. It's giving you pieces of Lego and you put them all together and the podcasts are helping you do it. And the experts are there to guide you through the process. And, it's up to you as to how you build it.

Yasmin: 38:33

I love that Lego analogy, Kathleen, because you think about If I were to just give you a bunch of Lego pieces and say, okay, go to town and build it. I think it's like that blank piece of paper. What do I do? How do I put this together? But what's brilliant about what Lego did. Is not only did they show you on the box what you could build and give you instructions as well. They also tapped into all of these different, experiences that we've had in our society through different brands, whether it be Marvel, Star Wars, whatever, and re. Ignite that connection that we had and applied these blocks to that. And so in many ways, as we are showcasing possibilities of how you could relate with your children, your partner, what you could do to explore in your life, all these new possibilities through people who are living a joyful retirement. We're in an essence. Giving you the picture on the box of what you can build, and we're also providing the tools, the resources, the support, so that you can actually build it. The instructions that come with it. So I love that analogy, Kathleen.

Kathleen: 39:51

Well, uh, here's to new pieces and may the puzzle take you where you need to be.

Yasmin: 39:58

Well, we're so grateful to have you join us. Thank you, Kathleen, for such an amazing conversation. This is really one of the highlights of my week and that we get a chance to be together and to just talk about this journey and hopefully be able to inspire and support and help others along the way.

Kathleen: 40:16

Don't forget if you're watching us now, subscribe so that we can continue with these podcasts and bring you way more tools and have way more fun

Yasmin: 40:24

Thank you for taking the time to join us today. If you enjoyed this episode or found it valuable, please subscribe. and leave a comment or review on your favorite platform. If you have friends, clients, or loved ones who are retired or thinking about retirement, we invite you to share this show with them. Check out the show notes with links to resources mentioned in this episode at real retirement show. com. Remember, retirement is a joyful journey we get to experience together. Join us next week for another Real Retirement Conversation.